Quadruple search today: “how to cross examine a sociopath”

I often get searches asking how to beat a sociopath in court. I keep intending on writing a “major post” but haven’t gotten around to it. The short answer to both searches is that I don’t know. So here’s a thinking aloud post.

In trying to answer “How to cross-examine a sociopath?” I’m aiming at jarring the sociopath into revealing their true self. I’m trying to find that “cape of red,”  that challenge that can’t go unanswered.

Unfortunately, this still will not usually happen. I’ve worked at a number of law firms, and for the times I’d hear, “The opposing party has a real temper, we’ll try to get him to blow up on the stand,” I rarely heard of it actually happening.  However, I’m betting it happens more often with sociopaths. The prosecution team must have thought they had died and gone to heaven when Wayne Williams said, “You want to see the real Wayne Williams, I’ll show you the real Wayne Williams.” So here goes:

1. All sociopaths are in a state of arrested development. Try to figure out where personality development stopped (from 8 to 12, I suppose) for that individual. Target your approach for that age.

2. The sociopath will have a child’s emotional hypersensitivity corresponding to that age. Recall Clinton’s takedown of Newt Gingrich.

3. Since sociopaths live in a pejorative universe, state things as pejoratively as possible. What’s important to them are the emotions behind the words, words themselves are simply tools. In Keith Morrison’s interview of David Hampton (the subject of Six Degrees of Separation), David Hampton was essentially bragging about his lying prowess. Morrison then said (paraphrasing) ‘you know what I think? I think you’re nothing but a goddamn liar‘. David Hampton then threw his glass of wine in Keith Morrison’s face. I believe it was that derisive ‘goddamn liar‘ and its negative connotations that did it.

Once I was called into HR (at Lehman Brothers) for handing out 8-10 pages (from Hare’s Without Conscience and Cleckley’s Mask of Sanity) to friends on recognizing sociopaths. (I wouldn‘t do this again, there is no way to learn that from reading material alone.) When I told the SVP why, she suddenly started screaming at me, ‘we have 15,000 employees, of course we have sociopaths working here’ — and then she collected herself. She interpreted my comment as criticism of sociopaths working there, imo. In this case, it was regarding one of the two most monstrous sociopaths I’ve ever known.

4. From both David Hampton and that SVP I concluded that the self control of a sociopath is only relative, that it is difficult for them and can slip at any time under the right pressure. That’s what the cross examiner should aim for. (I also concluded from that SVP that sociopaths recognize and protect each other. If at all possible screen the jury to prevent the seating of fellow sociopaths.)

Ask medical or dental personnel how often they run into patients who attack them upon their giving injections.  This is one point where the curtain is ripped away and the sociopath (some sociopaths) will react like an animal under attack — all self control is thrown aside by the dictates of self defense.

5. Show as much disrespect as you can get away with.  In sociopathic gangs no one lights another’s cigarette just to be friendly.  It is all defined by the food chain pecking order.  Similarly being polite is taken as respect for their place on the food chain vis-a-vis yourself.  We were all taught to do unto others as we would have done unto us — this is totally misunderstood by sociopaths.  Speaking for myself, I was raised a Quaker and I find it almost impossible not be stay polite.  However, looking back, there were definitely times when that was a mistake.

6. Sociopaths are very elemental. Such simplistic tactics as having someone stare at them can be very unsettling for them.  Or put together a legal team of big, imposing individuals.  They seem to think that the civilized world is only onion skin thin and at any time the world could revert to the law of the jungle.  You want them to stay off kilter.

7. Depending on the circumstances, the cross examiner may want to let the sociopath ramble in order to disclose their arrogance and disordered thinking.  Rodney Alcala (http://pathwhisperer.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/psychopath-on-tape-rodney-alcala/), Rabbi Israel Weingarten (http://pathwhisperer.wordpress.com/2009/03/08/incest-dad-represents-self-in-court-cross-examines-daughter/), and Jon Alexander (http://pathwhisperer.wordpress.com/2008/11/15/october-and-november-items-with-that-sociopathic-flavor/, http://www.popeater.com/2009/09/01/top-model-designer-gets-life-in-prison/ http://www.fashionlurve.com/tag/anand-jon-alexander/) did themselves no favors by being their own counsel.  Imo, their mistake was not imagining they could lose, being pathologically optimistic.

8.  Find a way to call out a sociopathic party or witness for fake tears and grief.  Of course it is considered bad form to question another’s expression of grief but this is a tactic sociopaths use all the time.  Recall Steinbrenner’s “tears” on the stand, or Jesse James’ recent performance, http://www.popeater.com/2010/05/21/jesse-james-nightline-video .

9.  Read The Psychopath’s Bible, http://www.scribd.com/doc/11554313/The-Psychopaths-Bible (or if you can find one, read the original).  This is one of the most stunning things in the world, it’s absolutely for real.  As the psychopathic authors attest:  “One of the axioms of life is this: even if you tell the truth—perhaps because you tell the truth—no one will believe you.”  Well, I believe them.

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56 Responses to “Quadruple search today: “how to cross examine a sociopath””

  1. I have been having problems for almost 2 years , I am an athlete and run a small team of Athletes not mentioning the sport in case they are spying. what amazes me and I would love an answer for this , where do they get their accomplices , I have found a pattern any friends I make and train with will be befriended on Facebook and made to feel special they will be befriended by the Sociopath and their hangers on and welcomed into there circle , I dont say anything as it make me look weird, they have tried everything to stop me competing and have managed to get me banned with lies as evidence. I have now instructed a solicitor

    • “Where do they get their accomplices” — the million dollar question. There are many, many more psychopaths than commonly assumed. I was found by a search recently, “do psychopaths run in gangs”. Absolutely they do, they seek to reinforce and back each other up. Sometimes at great risk to themselves, such as a supervisor refusing to fire an incompetent psychopathic employee, HR reps protecting same, or highly successful psychopathic journalists defending every psychopathic criminal in the news. Tight groups of psychopaths actually sit around and plan their strategies (I have heard this directly from psychopaths, one of whom was actually describing a strategy being used against myself by his ‘tag team’ partner, it must have amused him to do so). They also often have the help of the non-psychopathic corrupt and/or morality impaired.

      Your statement that “I dont say anything as it [would] make me look weird” is an expression of the classic double bind they love to maneuver their targets into. I’ve decided to publicly describe personal psychopathic enemies as ‘snakes in the grass’ and when asked why say it is personal. That way at least I’ve gotten others to doubt the innocence and word of the psychopath involved.

  2. joanie mcdaniel Says:

    I have been a guardian for six years for my sister who is a sociopath and as hostile as can be. She called the abuse hotline and without any evidence, I am now in a major legal battle based on her lies. We will most likely lose our home and retirement as my sister continues to talk and lie about things that never happened. Everyone believes her and treats me as if I am the person she describes. It’s been a horrific expensive legal battle and I am now very afraid of her. The lawyers have the fees over one hundred thousand dollars on things they cannot present a

    • Anonymous Says:

      Snap!!! After 45 years of asking the same question, “why is my brother so nasty?” I’ve always been loving and kind. He has claims i owe him £15K for antique furniture he left at family home – even though he never stayed there! In fact, he sold my mother junk he collected from antique dealers and junk shops. I have offered hi furnm all th

  3. Tara Comin Says:

    I didn’t have a chance to read the comments before mine, but the article is fascinating… This months Psychology Today has focused on sociopaths…three years ago I was married to one and still struggle with his lack of “human emotions”. On one hand I can admire their ability to be so cunning and then on the other hand surprised and shocked at the sharpness and inhuman attitudes. Perhaps you can elaborate more on how to handle this sort in family court….

  4. Reblogged this on Andreaurbanfox © and commented:
    Informative & very interesting.
    i’m stalked by a sociopath. Its scary at times how demented these people are yet they can come across as charming.

    My blog http://andreaurbanfox.wordpress.com/2011/11/15/stop-cyberbullying-week-message-to-my-stalker/

    Very interesting & relevant info on sociopaths can also be found in this blog http://andreaurbanfox.wordpress.com/2013/02/12/stalking-harassment/

    • Is that more than slightly obsessed Andrea Silva Andrea Urban Fox still defaming me? Seek help Andrea, you silly woman.

      Sociopath? Stalker? Don’t be so pathetic. I could sue for libel, but I just laugh at you and your liar pals. Life’s too short for deluded women like you.

      http://nemesisrespondsto.blogspot.co.uk/

      • how did you know what I reblogged if you are NOT stalking me and my online activities? Oh yeah, its because you ARE stalking me and my online activities. But why is that? Some sort of obsession with me? Are you still using the image of my son on your demented blogs in order to troll & intimidate me? I gather you have been reported to police and I no doubt will do the same on my return. I have been advised by a solicitor and police to ask you kindly to cease contacting me (direct or indirectly). I gather there is a process I have to follow. 3 strikes rule before placing a formal complaint. Let this be my 2nd request to you to stop stalking me. It has gone on for too long now. Pls be grown up and let go. Also Never EVER use my child to gain my attention. Makes you look creepy and its very worrying and upsetting.

        I want to apologise to the person who wrote this blog. I had no idea this would turn into this tiresome mud slinging. I will no longer reblog any of your blogs in case this person decides to vandalise the comments again.

  5. Serenity Seeker Says:

    I found this site through “The Healing Journey” on FB. It’s really good to see people talking about this HUGE problem of psycho/sociopaths that live freely in society for the mostpart, until or unless they commit a crime and are caught.
    I’ve been dealing with a psycho ex for 10 yrs and it take a lot of strength to fight for your rights, but we Must.

    Don’t let their intimidation prevent you from fighting for your personal rights and freedoms which they have already stripped from us. That’s where it has to stop. I found it hard at times going thru the process of getting him out of my personal space because I would fall prey to his pitiful cries for help. And that is all they are, like crying wolf. I use to feel bad, thinking of someone else’s feelings, but when you come to really understand that these VERY Sick individuals don’t have a conscience… they Don’t Care. They might say they do, all the words you wanna hear.. its all a facade, all for their own personal gain, whatever it is. Their end game is to have the power, all of it.

    But…. these people are like the bullies we grew up with. Nothing was done about their behavior then, so it continues into adulthood where they continue their sick, calculated games, and there’s no one who can get them to stop. They can’t be grounded, or suspended, reprimanded for bad behavior, because they are now adults, who can’t be forced to get any kind of help. So it comes down to calling their bluff in a SAFE WAY. Never alone. Always have a safety plan. ALWAYS. When you feel intimidated by the sociopath in your life, remember they are grown up bullies which means deep inside they are scared, cowardly, immature pathetic excuses of what it is to be a human being. They have NO Power if you don’t give it up. If you choose to listen only to their words, you will miss the actions/behaviors that should be red flags to pay attention to, much more than those oh-so lovely words they speak to us with their charm and chivalry.
    Yes, its all nauseating, and toxic, and immoral, and causes permanent damage to most victims. I am just so sick to death of these HIGHLY mentally ill, unstable people walking around in society and if ya don’t know what you’re looking for, you really can miss it, til its too late. I have a need to stop anymore trauma caused by sick people. Maybe that is why I ended up on this great page :) :)
    Much Respect,
    Serenity Seeking :)

    • pathwhisperer Says:

      They move through life like sharks through the water. But somehow they’re almost invisible to most people. Most people can’t believe that kind of evil can walk among us and will disbelieve their own eyes.

      • Since I reblogged this, the psycho who trolls me has been busy name calling, tweeting & generally being vile about me. How does she even know I reblogged this if she wasnt stalking my online pages, accounts, blog? Proves to me (again) that I’m being stalked and this person is disturbed.

  6. They have now reclassified sociopathic diagnosis as antisocial in the recently released DSM III and now they have a separate books just for psychological diagnoses. When I wrote email to my attorney that the District Attorney and the District Court Judge in my case are sociopaths, and he went postal and was furious that I would be so disrespectful. It was an email between client and attorney. What do you think made him so angry? I think the DA and Judge have recruited him to not provide an effective defense, since they have an agenda. Attorneys take an oath that they are officers of the court and must protect the courts. The Judge make an illegal exparte order in a not child or domestic case. That is a violation of a Judicial Canon, and the District Attorney prepared the order getting his signature knowing she was violating my due process. My attorney is showing signs of abandonment to his client and called me in a furious tone saying I called the Judge and DA psychopaths, which I did not say, in an email message, confidential and they really are sociopaths and narcissists.
    Told my attorney that I will not discharge him, but he is trying to make a scenario that he will claim that we have communication problems to get out of this case. Clay feet.

    • pathwhisperer Says:

      Sociopathic jurists 99 times out of a 100 will side with other sociopathic jurists rather than see to it that the law is followed or a client’s interest is upheld. Collusion among sociopaths in the court system is a hidden societal problem of vast proportion. All judges and prosecutors need to be screened for sociopathy (there are brain scans for this now) and removed from the system. Then their cases need to be gone over with a fine tooth comb.

  7. The brain pathways in psychopaths and sociopaths underlying empathy are not as strong as in others, and this appears to be genetic.

  8. What happens when their lawyer is a sociopath as well. Between them and their lawyer , they threatened everyone who would testify on my behalf to a claim that was made up, including all my attorneys. They put drugs in my drink and cut my phone & dsl lines the day before the trial. I ended up in the hospital for 4 days. I didn’t even know the date because my lawyer didn’t give it to me. I lost the case and they posted it on line. They then threatened my employer saying they would include them in the on line posting and I was laid off. This is the third employer who has laid me off due to them.
    I own a 2 family building with a family of Sociopaths.
    These folks killed my dog, wrecked my car, stole my money, took loans against the building without telling me. Didn’t pay their fare share of the bills, stalked me where ever I went , were in breach of the contract from the very first day they moved in, Took me to arbitration to get a storage room I paid for , threatened everyone involved with the case in any way, including doctors I’ve gone to for 25 years, my family and friends as well as workmen who did work on the building,they have spread rumors about how horrible I am (I’ve gotten 1 ticket my entire life and have take care of sick relatives for decades (almost died when I caught a decease from my husband) and spend some of my free time volunteering such as feeding the hungry, tutoring poor kids who are having trouble with school, advocating for patient rights and helping prisoners (non-violent) after they have done their time.) They did things unillatorally and I ended up paying the whole bill , they keep on getting keys to my condo every time I replace them (I have the security locks that the keys can’t be make in the hardware store ( and cost up to $500.00 each time – I’ve done it 3 times now), but they threaten the locksmiths and get copies)They keep on breaking into my house and stealing little stuff, move things, turn lights on anything that shows me they were there. I installed a security system and they broke it again and again. The list goes on and on. The arbitration lasted 3 years and cost me $300,000.00 – my life savings. They moved in in January 2004 and are continuing to harass me to this day even though they moved a year ago, every time I think I can move on, they rear their ugly heads again Every time I try to get a new attorney, they refuse to take the case, I’ve heard that their attorney is as bad as them and is politically connected and will do anything to make sure the victim is destroyed for life. The police have told me that I’m not the vicim, but they are. There isn’t a therapist who will see me either.

    • pathwhisperer Says:

      What a nightmare.

    • pathwhisperer Says:

      It’s not good psychology to go through such an experience without finding a way to strike back. ‘Turning the other cheek’ may be in the bible, but it’s bad selfcare, at least for those of us not saints (which is close to a 100% of us).

      It’s worth noting that the truth is its own defense. You are free to term sociopaths as sociopaths if you wish (I would do so in all conversations if I were you). (An added source of confusion is that the DSM folks have essentially defined away the existence of sociopathy, but that’s another story.) I truly believe that this would be a better world if sociopaths always worried about being identified. Their behavior would be very different. Only the criminally insane among them don’t have self control. I once knew a don juan (who had had hundreds of lovers, at least, and who didn’t need to work because his lovers supported him), who having got gonorrhea once, would never have sex without a condom. They can make and abide by choices.

      On the other hand, getting into a life long deathmatch with a sociopath is not desirable. But acting anonymously is also an option (don’t worry about ‘fair play’, they wouldn’t give you any). Another possibility is teaching others about sociopathy, to help protect others from your experiences.

      I recommend that you chose an option.

  9. I can’t believe I happened upon your site, just when any insight into how to deal with my sociopath husband, at our divorce trial – which is in 60 days – could make the difference between my spending the rest of my life in a nursing home or having enough money to afford in home care. I have progressive MS. 7 years ago I married a man who was 9 years younger than me and only because he pursued me to the point I finally gave in. I thought I was madly in love with him. A year ago he just walked in one day and announce he didn’t want to be a care giver and wanted out of the marriage. Everyone in my family would say he was so unfriendly and unemotional, but to me he was always loving and caring – which I’ve since learned was his mimicking the needed emotion- As it happens we ended up taking in his teenage son, and to make a long story short, through a series of catastrophic events and his seeing a psychiatrist, my husband and I were told that his son was a sociopath – When our research disclosed that this is a hereditary condition, my husband either convinced me his ex-wife had all the traits of being the carrier or he really believed it.

    Since he made his announcement, there was no doubt who that gene came from. He has done so many ‘evil’ things to exacerbate my disease, with the goal of making me collapse under the stress.

    I have a lot of evidence to support his systematic set up to get half of my pension, my home- which he managed to get me to add his name to and my 401k

    He has refused to offer anything and actually expects me to pay him – I have been trying to research techniques used in court to let the judge see the total unemotional, cruel and lying creep he really is, but he had me fooled for 7 years and frankly most people refuse to believe these people are walking around, living pretty normal lives. They think they’re all serial killers.

    At least my attorney has seen her fair share of them and believes me. Since he thinks he’s invincible and can cry on demand, or can charm the judge, I was hoping to find some definitive ways to get him to show that evil, indifferent, contemptuous expression that he doesn’t care if I see anymore.

    Are there any strategies that can be used against them – ways to show his contempt for the law and for anyone who thinks they can make him do anything he doesn’t want to do. I know he is capable of putting on a victims face and lie without the least hesitation. I’m in a life and death situation here, so any help is more than I have now.

    Sincerely,

    In major trouble

    • pathwhisperer Says:

      Hello. Sorry to hear of your situation. At least you recognize its true nature.

      Unfortunately there are no definite strategies to unmask a sociopath. Each has their own personality of course. Perhaps you could figure out his vanity points and what his “challenges-that-must-be-answered” might be. As I said in the post, don’t build your case just around this. If you can get him to blow his cool that’s great but is really just gravy, it shouldn’t be the intended meat and potatoes of your case. Build the case around his actions.

      The truth is its own defense. You can call a sociopath, a sociopath. You may want to do that in court, particularly if you could build a record of his manipulations, psychological stiletto attacks on your self, etc. His son is also evidence of his possible sociopathy.

      I don’t want to add to your stress, but keep an eye out for the possibility of drawing a sociopathic judge. Sociopathic judges will side with the sociopathic party before them. You would need to find a way to call the judge out. This might be another reason to call your husband a sociopath in court, it would put the judge on notice.

      I hope you’ve also consulted a pension/401K legal specialist on possibly getting his name off your 401K.

      Sorry for the delay in answering, I’m semi-retired from the blog. I check it for comments and to clear the spam every week or two. I will keep it running though, this topic and the one on blackmail get the most visitors, undoubtedly the most emotionally distressed visitors.

      Best of luck in court. Let us know how it turns out.

      PW

      • Honey, I’m so SO sorry! I know what you’re going through, I do! I’m going to say something “unconventional” here and I don’t want you to get offended, but the very first thing you must at least TRY to do is get some natural treatments for your MS so you can eventually function without any help (that’s what a sociopath loves is to make you helpless). You have been under MASSIVE stress in living with a sociopath for the last 7 years and I almost guarantee that the cellular stress is increasing your MS symptoms. There is a book called “The Healing Code” by Alex Loyd that you MUST READ AND APPLY IMMEDIATELY!!! When my sister committed suicide I dealt with so much stress at a cellular level that it eventually manifested as a physical illness. All I know is, The Healing Code is a MIRACLE from God for not only myself, but so many people I’ve bought and given the book to. There IS hope to completely overcome your MS, and don’t let anyone convince you otherwise. Also, sometimes changing your diet helps alongside the emotional healing (like getting off inflammatory processed foods like bread, sugar, pasta, white flour, grains, etc.).

        Secondly, after you’ve begin helping yourself heal from all the stress and trauma, go IMMEDIATELY and cash out your 401K for what you can get! Just cash it ALL out!!! Even if you’re going to take a significant loss, something is better than nothing. And let me tell you, a sociopath has no qualms about leaving you completely penniless, and worse. Bernie Madoff was an obvious sociopath and he had no remorse about taking those poor people’s ENTIRE retirements. Some even committed suicide because they were left with absolutely NOTHING!!! Please do this or yourself. I would take the cash and strategically HIDE it someplace, or invest it in an offshore account where he can’t get to it. I understand there are often legal loopholes here, but find out the exact laws FAST so you can move on it before your sociopath does. God bless and you take care of you :)

        • I’m so sorry for this circumstance. Almost unbelievable these vipers have not been stopped from causing such harm. One day they will be stopped. We just happen to be at the moment in time in which they are being widely identified and exposed. More and more will come to recognize them early and be able to avoid them entirely. That’s what blogs like this do. It doesn’t help your case now, however. Heartbreaking.

          In addition to Madoff’s clients, one of Bernie Madoff’s 2 sons (both worked in the business) committed suicide in the wake of realizing his own father had used him as a pawn to enact such atrocities. The other son has cancer.

          Sociopaths like Madoff commit murder by proxy when their victims commit suicide.

          The flip side of suicide is that often it’s the sociopath himself who commits suicide as his or her final act of control freak gotcha, like Ariel Castro. He endured only 1 month of imprisonment, whereas he inflicted 10 years of imprisonment and sadistic torture (beatings, rapes, no toilet facilities, fetal murder) on his 3 teen victims. In addition to their pity ploys, and egregious blame shifting to their victims (falsely accusing their victims of the very behavior they, themselves, enact – pathological projection), they can dish it out, but they can’t take it.

          So, suicide can be either – escaping the devastation caused by the sociopath or a sociopath making sure no one can control their outcome – only them.

          Examining the timeline of events reveals which one.

  10. Thank you for this web site, I am currently dealing with a sociopathic sister and fear for my life. I am receiving much needed strength from this type of information and will try to contribute my story later when I have more time, right now I am trying to find another place to live.

  11. pathwhisperer Says:

    As I was deleting the spam queue, I saw a request to copy this post with a link back to here. Feel free to do so for nonprofit uses. Please contact me if its for a for-profit use.

  12. Anonymous Says:

    How long have you been studying sociopaths? I got into a partnership with one. The sad part is that I thought he would be the perfect choice since at the time he was a highway patrol officer. It gets worse, he now works for Homeland Security. He breaks the law without fear and gets away with it. He lies about anything and everything. My court date is coming up in September. I am afraid that after reading my cross-complaint he is falsifying documents or who knows what to win the case.

    I used all of my retirement up by putting it into this business and is now making money from my contributions. He has completely taken it over. I have no access to anything. He removed me from the business checking account. Previously when I was on the account the bank told me that I could not remove myself. How was he able to remove me from the account? He is receiving the income from the business and using it to pay his attorney’s. I believe this person is dangerous and am in fear of what he is capable of. He feels entitled to everything I have and if I had not fought back he would have continued in pursuing everything I own.

    There is so much more to the story. Maybe I should write a book.

    • pathwhisperer Says:

      Uncanny, what they are able to get away with. Perhaps he found a sociopathic bank officer, from everything I’ve seen they cooperate with each other against the non-sociopath world. Pray you don’t get a sociopathic judge.

      I just came across this quote, “Sociopaths have a lopsided notion of property rights. What’s theirs is theirs, and what’s yours is theirs too” (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-ascendence-sociopaths-us-governance). No kidding.

      It’s not so much studying s’paths, by now it’s a way of life. Also, while I did say I was selftaught, that’s really not the half of it. It was more of a case of learn or die. I think it was around 1993 that I read Hervey Cleckley’s Mask of Sanity.

      Good luck on your case.

  13. Anonymous Says:

    Hello All,

    I just defeated what I think is the most dangerous type of Sociopath, an Ex-Police Officer in a Civil trial and won. Initially, I didn’t know what I was dealing with until I started doing research on the type of sites. This Ex-Cop Sociopath thought he was so smart, thought he be smarter than the judge and his own attorney. He actually lost all control on the stand while his own attorney was questioned him. He was so upset when the judge ruled against in the deputies escorted my wife and I out of the court room for protection.

    The proceedings were pretty scary as he told the judge he carries a gun and almost killed himself in the past. I have so much evidence of harassment I think 1 more piece he will probly be arrested. I have also never witnessed someone lie so much and think they are convincing everyone that they are telling the truth. Ultimately he was ordered to pay is fees and it was a miracle that he did.

  14. TrueLight Says:

    Hello Worried:

    Prayer is appreciated – especially for my children. I still have a sense of what’s right and wrong and a parent’s, a Father’s innate drive to protect his children – from ALL ENEMIES and THREATS – whether it be individual sociopaths or a criminal cllass of sociopathic cabal of fascist / communist / whatever social worker technocrats.

  15. Dear TrueLight, I feel for you. I am going through a similar fight with DYFS. A few years ago I would have read your post and though…yeah right why would they cover for each other. NOW, I my eyes are wide open, and while I don’t understand it I certainly belive it. IF they are supposed to protect children why was I told by one DYFS worker that she wasn’t worried that she was protected. Well, good thing she is protected…my daughter is certainly not protected. My situation is very different from yours but I am having the same problems with the “system” What has this world come to when we cannot protect our children and leave it up to these uneducated sociopaths who only want to be right? No wonder the children of today are so messed up. Parents must allow horrible things to happen to them with no help from the authorities – – in fact in many cased these abused children are put with the very people who abuse them. I am very sorry for you and you will be in my prayers!

  16. TrueLight Says:

    I appreciate yor accurate perception on government (evil) technocrats. And that they are – the higher up go in DCFS – the more sociopathic and evil they become at the top of their pyramid. The good social workers usually quit after one or two years at most – I met some good ones.

    I actually did confront them directly on their illegal and potentially criminal lies and collusion agianst me and my kids. I wrote an Opeb Letter to DCFS last October nad posted it all the internet and sent copies to senior DCFS executives and the offending social workers themselves.

    It is known as the mirror effect as describes in the book the 48 Laws of Power. Well, it go their attention. The went crying to Dependency Court on a ex parte hearing and had their lackey stooge judge hit me with a gag order last December. 2010. What F’ing cowards. My attorneys fought it February 201 1 and go it lifted. I walked away with an ‘admonishment.’ Whoope – Do. They showed me.

    But know I am stuck on what to do next…. I have tried to go to LA County Auditors, the State Agency that oversees them and licenses foster parents… all a farce as they cover up for each other.

    I fond their weak point – but they know no or fear any public accountability. The Board of Supervisors is part of this massive federal fund scam that gets bounties for each child they seize and hold in foster for good cause or not.

    I’ve been on major media last year as well. And they wait out the storm until the public forgets. The attorneys as officers of the court won’t fight them directly, they are cowards.

    I have only 4 more months to fight them before they terminate my parental rights. And I have not been charges with ANYTHING! This i government kidnapping so they can make money on adoption kickbacks. My kids are blond girls and blue eyed.

  17. TrueLight Says:

    As briefly mentioned above, the courts – judges and commissioners themselves are commonly sociopathic – especially in the Dependency and Family Court system. CPS / DCFS so called Child Protective departments are unbelievably sociopathic (and evil) as institutions. It is the most corporate corporate cultures I have even experienced. What advice do you having dealing wih sociopathic government agencies? I have had several of my children held for over two years in foster care WITH NO CHARGES against me and the kids were removed from the mother’s house ( diagnosed cociopath/bipolar person) for abuse. I have maintained custody of two other kids all this time. They placed my kids with a diagnosed (by court order) mentally ill foster mother who has turned the kids against the rest of the family being cited as having a Mother Teresa complex and the court and DCFS both stand behind her. They all get paid BIG MONEY from federal tax dollars to prop up a bankrupt county government.

    • pathwhisperer Says:

      Some of these employees no doubt are actually rigid narcissists, the mentally ill evil of Scott Peck’s People of the Lie, also known as the perfect (in their own minds). They often take jobs where they pretend to do good but that allow them to play god with others’ lives. For example, I believe many of those involved with shipping aboriginal children away from their families to westernizing schools were/are these narcissists. They look in the mirror to admire their goodness and their noble intentions, all the while feeling strangely satisfied after causing and witnessing the emotional turmoil — it’s this subterranean enjoyment of their evil that they live for.

      Rigid narcissists often form symbiotic relationships with actual sociopaths (in marriages, this produces the evil couple). For example, an evil rigid narcissistic therapist might allow sociopaths into group therapy with non-sociopaths. The sociopaths of course will read the narcissist’s actual evil desires and carry them out in the group. But the narcissist, perfect in all ways, will have done nothing wrong but will again experience that strange satisfaction (the cause of which is hidden from their conscious mind). Rigid narcissistism must be the most convoluted and devious of all self-deceiving psychological disorders.

      In terms of how to deal with them or actual governmental sociopaths, that’s a tough question. Narcissists value their reputation above all, it validates their disorder. You might find a way to threaten it. The sociopaths probably simply enjoy being bullies and siding with power. What would happen if you asked them (or their bosses) if they (or their boss thought they) were sociopathic? I don’t know. They shouldn’t want to be exposed, but it’s hard to predict.

  18. Chicmomof4 Says:

    Just wanted to update the site that we beat the sociopath in court. Carfully insinuating that he was stupid caused him to blow up in court. The judge actually said that nothing he said was credible! Thank you for your advice. This is testiment that you can win with a sociopath! Your site was a wealth of knowledge and support. Thank you!

  19. Reynardine Says:

    I’d like to know more about sociopaths recognizing each other and covering for each other. Since they have no real human sympathy… why?

    • pathwhisperer Says:

      Reynardine, I’ve been giving your question some thought. This falls into the category of things I have witnessed, that I know but don’t understand (yet). Sympathy isn’t really at play, or perhaps, sympathy is there only on one plane. I don’t think sociopaths will hesitate to cheat, scam or criminally victimize each other if they feel it’s in their interest but they just hate to see sociopaths lose out to normals. It seems visceral, similar to what’s expressed by the phrase “oh my god, I’ve got to stop that pain in my head.” It seems to hurt them. Or their own feeling of superiority comes under attack.

      In my own life, I’ve witnessed sociopathic HR reps and individuals in management side with sociopathic individuals (sometimes criminally insane ones, i.e., those who can’t stop themselves from being criminally antisocial) when they seemingly should have been afraid of exposing their own sociopathy; I consider the defenders of Jeffrey MacDonald and Wayne Williams that I have known to be sociopathic themselves (mostly/all?); and I have witnessed sociopathic lawyers and prosecutors side with a sociopathic party against their own client and/or justice.

      In the public sphere, we’ve had the spectacle of Norman Mailer championing his co-sociopath Jack Abbott, even after Abbot’s sociopathic murder of Richard Adan (“I’m willing to gamble with a portion of society to save this man’s talent,” Norman Mailer, sociopath and writer, RIP); we’ve witnessed the Republican flood gates open to admit sociopathic weirdos after they witnessed Reagan not being recognized and getting away with his con; and we’ve had legal cases where sociopathic judges sided with sociopathic pleaders (or prosecutors) illegally and against the outcome of justice (this is actually a huge problem and is my second subterranean societal problem of vast proportion involving sociopaths).

  20. Hi Momof2littles,

    In addition to taking a look at Lovefraud, you might find helpful information at http://angiemedia.com/2010/04/02/co-parenting-with-a-sociopath-borderline-narcissist-etc/. Parts of this posting are also at Lovefraud, but read through as much of the original site as you can, and read the comments.

    This page on the site appears to be directly relevant to your situation, so don’t overlook it though it does not focus on children: http://angiemedia.com/2009/07/08/recovering-from-personality-disordered-abusive-relationships/.

    Substitute “malicious fathers” for “malicious mothers” in this one: http://angiemedia.com/2009/07/03/how-to-win-custody-by-framing-your-ex-for-child-sexual-abuse/.

    And this page discusses the brokenness of the family court system: http://angiemedia.com/2010/03/29/personality-disorder-abusers-in-family-law-courts/. (But you already knew that…)

  21. Momof2littles Says:

    I am overwhelmed to have found this site! My ex-husband is also a sociopath and has been sexually abusing my daughter for over a year now. I have ignorned his attempts at abuse and harassment and this has only made thing worse. Since he can’t get at me direclty he does it though my children. He shows many signs of being a sociopath, he comes up with elaborate lies and I truly believe that he beives them. He acts as though if he says something outloud that makes it true. Recently DYFS got involved regarding the abuse. Visitiation was suspended. But much like he charmed me in the begining, he was able to charm this young, inexpereinced case worker into believing that the touching he was doing was necessary because she was irritated and her vagina required attending to. They closed the case with no recommendations that he stop touching her. The judge, who seemed very apprehensive about returnign the visitation, said he hands were tied because DYFS gave him nothing to go on except that they were dropping the case. The past weekend he got visitation back and he touched her again. She returned home hysterically crying that she never wants to go to daddy’s again. She said he brought her into a bedroom alone and took her pants off. I called the police. They rushed over immediatley and took a statement, but due to her age an investigation must occur…again. In the meantime he went to the court and made up some crazy story about me threatening to kill him with guns…that I don’t have. 2 Sherriffs officers, who seemed to understand the situation, came over with a search warrent for guns. In front of my two small children. I am a teacher….I’m sure he knows that if he gets the restraining order I will lose my job. I also have to go back to court tomorrow to see if I can get the judge to stop visitation again. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. How do I handle this.. I’m less worried about the restraining order because i have never harrassed him or made any threats toward him…but the thing with my daughter has me sick. No one will help me protect my daughter and in fact the legal system has helped him to continue doing it. He told the last DYFS worker that he was the better parent and he really wants full custody. We’ve been divorced for 2 years and he wanted no more than every other weekend with the kids. He moved in with his 28 year old girlfriend and her 15 year old son (do the math) into a 2 bedroom apartment. When my kids visit they sleep on the floor! He bring them home hungry and dirty. But yet when he says outload I am the better parent, even though none of his actions support it, he believe it. And apparently so did she. I’m afraid of how far he will take this and if this is just the beginning of his legal harassment!!

    • pathwhisperer Says:

      That ability of theirs to lie so well that it approaches ‘weaving reality’ — the DYFS case worker seemed to have been totally snowed. I would complain to that worker’s superiors and also inquire whether they train their workers regarding sociopathy.

      Be sure to visit http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/, I’m sure they have bloggers who have been in similar situations. Good luck.

      • Chloe W Says:

        As a former social worker for Child Protection, I can assure you social workers are not trained on sociopaths, gathering evidence for prosecution or truly protecting the children first. Parents have rights, not the child. If we were concerned with children, our courts would represent the CHILD, not their parents. Remember, children are chattel. Wives were, too. There is a lot of money in the INDUSTRY of child protection. It’s a business, plain and simply. Sorry

        • pathwhisperer Says:

          That’s sad, no training regarding sociopathy (as well as the rest of your post). Thanks for posting.

    • Anonymous Says:

      Hi be interested to know how you are managing as i have exactly the same situation even so far as the social worker was completely taken in by him. He has several prior sexual allegations relating to children as well and i am still not believed. Hope you and your girls are now protected, and let me know please if you have any advice x

  22. Heartbroken, I’m going to suggest something to you that I discovered by accident. It may seem counter-intuitive, but it’s imperative that you try to understand what I’m telling you.

    When you interact with your sociopath (or with anyone else who displays these characteristics), you must practice emotional detachment. You should practice this with yourself in order to develop the genuine indifference which, to a sociopath, is like an impenetrable force field. A caveat: you must really feel this – the inner realignment you must undergo is critical, and the technique cannot be accomplished via feigned disinterest. What you are doing is short-circuiting the foothold into your psyche that the sociopath seeks by way of the stress syndrome, the adrenaline rollercoaster, he is trying to induce in you, with its concomitant behavioral struggling. If it sounds like psychological warfare, it is. Please note that this is not to be confused with being uncaring. (PW, who has an acting background, may identify this technique as being similar to Method Acting.)

    “How can this help me?” You ask. I know what you’d like to see happen—you would like the legal apparatus surrounding you to respond logically to your reasoned descriptions of the psychological abuse by punishing the abuser.

    But people in general, regardless of intelligence and education, do not attend immediately to logic; they respond to tacit aspects of a situation, in most cases subconsciously conflating the appearance of stress and anxiety with a lack of credibility. (Unfortunately, psychotherapists do this too.) That there is no evidence of abuse discernible to others besides your ravaged emotional state compounds the problem. (In cases of ongoing bullying situations, this is how sociopaths gain their followers, who tend to be weak-minded, eager to belong to a dominant in-group, and susceptible to the sociopath’s confidence and lack of anxiety, and they easily collude out of insecurity and a desire for power through association when the sociopath hones in on a target.)

    Here’s a case history from bullyonline.org written by someone who vanquished an office bully using aspects of this technique: http://bullyonline.org/cases/case103.htm.

    The key phrase in this vignette can be found in the sixth paragraph: “[T]he bully was dealing with someone with nothing to lose and fear (one of the most dangerous types of people) when they [the bully] had everything to lose and fear; a very fortunate position to be in.” Not only had the subject nothing to lose, but he was cognizant of this fact, and the sociopathic bully was aware of having no inroad to destroying the subject’s sense of well-being.

    You could imagine yourself as being in a similar position: you have nothing more that can be taken from you, and you are free.

    I survived an episode of workplace bullying using this “inner shield” technique, outlasting all my tormentors (including two supervisors). When I use it with other identified sociopathic intruders, they often scurry like cockroaches from a kitchen light. They know they’ve been “made”—one of their deepest fears—and they know there’s no entry. There may be some backlash, but it’s handled the same way – through psychological disengagement and the resulting maintenance of composure. (This works with narcissists, too, by the way.)

    Sociopaths, oddly, tend to be very submissive to authority (although resentful of it), and this includes the authority you are wielding over your own person. You have been psychologically violated, and you are making the violation stop.

    Once you have gained some mastery over this technique, your son and others may no doubt notice the changes in you and regard you more respectfully. Your general health will likely improve as well. The hardest and most paradoxical thing about this technique is that you must let go of the outcome. (Sounds a bit Zen, doesn’t it?)

    My best to you. Hang in there.

  23. heartbroken Says:

    So what can I do when I have been harasssed off and on for 18 yrs by a sociopathic ex-husband (who has never been diagnosed professionally) and has charmed the pants off our son’s uardian et Litem which resulted in him getting 100% residency of our son and NO visitation with me?? I am so heartbroken and financailly broken from fighting this 3 yrs ago. And the backstory is too long to go into here, but it was all planned out from the marriage of his third wife (to set the stable environment) after 2 mos of dating, to having ME served with POA papers 2 mos after the wedding and one month after my son turned 13 (at which age he legally has a voice). All of this was completely out of the blue!! Which most of his harassment was/is. He has completely alienated my son from me and my entire family and has been working at it since my son was 3 (now 16). He comes from a family of money and had an evil sister who not only supported it, but I believe instigated the whole court thing. I feel completely powerless but am desperate to get my son away from the emotional abuse this man is inflicting. I fear my son will inheirit this behavior as he already shows the signs of a severely alienated child and seems to have no remorse at all for “going along” with his Dad’s shenanigans. What is a person like me able to do?? The Family Violence Project says there is nothing they can do to help me, but yet he fits every characteristic on the Domestic Violence Wheel that they publish in pamphlets and in the newspapers. They say emotional abuse IS ABUSE, but the courts do nothing about it. A true sociopath is too cunning and manipulative for the courts to see the true evil that they emit. I have lived it and have failed my son by not being able to get the courts to see his Dad as the sociopath that he is. What can I do? Any suggestions?

    • pathwhisperer Says:

      “A true sociopath is too cunning and manipulative for the courts to see the true evil that they emit.” That’s such a horrible truth. And further that your ex has persuaded your son to side against his own interest (and mental health) — that’s what sociopaths do. I wish I had suggestions. I hope you’ve been over to the Lovefraud blog. Posters there have lived through it all, maybe there’ll be some suggestions or success strategies there, http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/.

  24. Thanks, pathwhisperer. I found just what I was looking for. It’s not easy for the average victim of a SP to find ways to crack the shell. He.ll, I’d subscribe to a newsletter on weekly tips (I signed up for site updates).

    Evidently, a key ploy in the SP’s arsenal is the pity play, in order to disarm, and gain the trust of, an intended victim. Mocking their act should be an effective defense against further attempts to deceive.

  25. I don’t imagine laughing at a sociopath in real life would be a very good idea. It would absolutely enrage them and then they’d have it out for you for the rest of their life. They’d make you their target, bad idea.

    • So, . . . are we just supposed to let them win? One of the most damaging things of sociopathic harassments (which can indeed be very long lasting and deep) is that the sociopathicness of the harasser is not generally recognized, making the victim isolated. Blogs like this should spread the recognition of sociopaths. If sociopaths worry about being recognized as sociopaths that would be a good thing. In this situation the obsessed sociopath might think twice about a harassment campaign against a target.

  26. Also, laugh at them. I know that is pretty similar to your show-as-much-disrespect-as-possible strategy, but I’ve found this to set psychopaths off fairly reliably.

    Given a controlled environment, the technique that works best for me is messing with them.

    It seems to astonish them at first, as if they can’t grasp how you’re doing it — although they’ll soon recover and try to strike back or turn the tables, etc. Normal people will stop at this point, so you wait until their guard is down, then get them again.

    It seems to get them deeply confounded, as if they had no way to orient themselves in a reality that they weren’t secretly controlling.

    I’d love to try it with an accomplice someday to see how disorienting that would be — although it’s unclear where one is supposed to get these accomplices that sociopaths always seem to have.

    • pathwhisperer Says:

      Yes, where do they get their accomplices? They just love tagteams. Hopefully the spread of blogs on sociopathy on the net will create a pool of accomplices for our side.

  27. Also, laugh at them. I know that is pretty similar to your show-as-much-disrespect-as-possible strategy, but I’ve found this to set psychopaths off fairly reliably.

    If you get a chance (and especially if he’s just put on an emotional, “sincere” show) laugh at him in the same way as a kid would laugh behind the back of an adult who is trying to be “cool” and just made an idiot of themselves. If the P/N thinks they’ve just made a fool of themselves, they tend to go mental, which shows them up nicely :)

  28. Quadruple search today: how to cross examine a sociopath…

    I found your entry interesting do I’ve added a Trackback to it on my weblog :)…

  29. Your strategy is basically like that of Tom Cruise to Jack Nicholson in “A Few Good Men”

  30. Most scientific experiments require hundreds of tests with no contrary results. You make a conclusion from two examples. I’m not buying.

    • pathwhisperer Says:

      Perhaps I was a little loose in my use of language. My thinking really went like this: ‘Hmm. It seems these two individuals, the Lehman senior vice president and David Hampton, have only shallow self control, that the adult act is very thin and difficult for them. Let me see if this is common in other sociopathic individuals.’ Overtime I have come to believe it is in fact universal among them (though for each self control will fail at a different point).

      Concerning your requirement of “hundreds of tests” that would mean that none of us could draw significant conclusions from our own life experiences. That is too absurd to entertain. One of the reasons that some people hide behind “well, experts say . . .” is that they are simply frightened by the adult world and the need to exercise adult judgment. Or some people will use their brain to twist reality to conform to their emotional wishes and still others to keep the universe simple and small enough to fit in the small box of their small understanding. These people try very hard not to learn from their own lives and will rely on (cherrypicked) expert opinion. It should be obvious that I as an autodidact on the subject reject the cult of the expert.

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